Disc Specs
- Region:
ALL - Released:
4th August 2008 - Country:
United Kingdom - Running Time:
99 minutes - Screen Format:
2.35:1 / 1080P / AVC/H.264/MPEG4 - Discs / Type:
1 / BD25 - Soundtracks:
DTS HD MA 5.1
DD 5.1
Commentary - Subtitles:
- Special Features:
Commentary with Kurt Russell and John Carpenter
Documentary: Return to Escape from New York (23.01, 576i, MPEG2, 25fps)
Three trailers (576i, MPEG2, 25fps)
Exclusive interview with Carpenter (31.16, 576i, MPEG2, 25fps)
Deleted opening: Snake's Crime (10.45, 576i, MPEG2, 25fps) - Distributor:
Optimum
Film Specs
- Certificate:
15 - Released:
1981 - Country:
United Kingdom
United States of America - Director:
John Carpenter - Starring:
Kurt Russell
Donald Pleasance
Adrienne Barbeau
Isaac Hayes
Ernest Borgnine
Lee Van Cleef
Harry Dean Stanton - Genre(s):
Action
Adventure
Cult
Science Fiction
Escape From New York
22-07-2008 10:29 | 12673 views | John White | Show Backlinks
The film
It's pure prejudice but I don't trust a film buff who doesn't love John Carpenter. Sure, he's gone off the boil with Cigarette Burns being his only decent showing for almost 15 years, but the man made Halloween, The Thing, They Live, Starman, and he proved that entertainment could be made with intelligence. Like his hero, Howard Hawks, his films guaranteed their quality by boasting his name as part of the title, and his love of cinema shone through every frame of his work. But unlike the modern day trend of Tarantino, his films had substance of their own, keeping homage subtle and backgrounded as his work illustrated that this director was equal to the film-makers who had inspired him. It is one of the world's worst unfairnesses that this man has never got to make his western. Somebody, anybody, give him the dosh, leave him alone, and let him make his great horse opera.
Escape from New York is the kind of action movie that they have forgotten how to make. It is brimful of character, tension, action and proper motivation. Not only that, but the film curls its lip at heroism, it poo poos authority, and social comment and satire stick two fingers up at any one wanting obvious drama or dumb comedy. Actors do their jobs, the script does its and the viewer is happy that they are along for the ride. It all works despite small budgets, unusual casting, and a belly-full of attitude. If the film was a person, it would be smoking the largest cigar it could find with an open bottle of Jack Daniels at its side, it would tell the best stories, be the best companion, and make you feel great that you met it.
Of course, making a film that seems so damn good involves a lot of hard work, but above all it requires talent and great vision. When Robert Rodriguez tried to channel Carpenter's spirit for a new generation in Planet Terror, he forgot the humanity, the style, and, above all, the quality that the original film-maker possesses in abundance. Rodriguez had no Jane Russell substitute like Adrienne Barbeau, he had no former child star acting against type like Kurt Russell, and he didn't have possibly the most sleazy portrayal of a president on celluloid by Donald Pleasence. Most of all, Rodriguez's characters were one line jokes where Carpenter served up miscreants with their own thoughts and feelings.
Then you have the director himself, a man whose own pulsing simple score accompanies the film, driving it on in the action, flavouring the characters and never distracting from the visuals by its own cleverness. A man with a trusty crew and the great Dean Cundey ensuring that a five million dollar budget looks like megabucks. A director who lets the actors underplay, and try strange affectations like Isaac Hayes' twitch or the obscene hints that the blonde wig gives Pleasence about his humiliation. And who else would have cast Russell as a bad-ass, the ultimate anti-hero?
Who else would use St Louis for an apocalyptic New York and get away with it? Who else would name a character after George Romero, and cast his own wife with the surname "Wayne"? Who would edit it to within an inch of its life, remove all the back-story for Plissken and present a story about saving peace talks which actually suggests that the system is just bullshit. For all the films that have tried dystopia paradigms since, Escape from New York makes them seem empty as the corruption of the free world is left in contrast with the admirable character of the criminal loner Plissken. No one is saved for the good of mankind, and the best people die for political necessity - that kind of future is one we all know too well.
Carpenter, though, is about spirit more than politics. Plissken is his ultimate hero, the man who knows it's all worthless and grubby, and who stays alive because of his individual wits. The characters who surround him have spirit too, and values that are worth celebrating in spite of their criminal status - Brains' resourcefulness, Maggie's loyalty to him, and Cabbies' canniness and warmth. Seen in contrast to them, the police are black suited Machiavellis, and the president uses his subjects as bait for his traps. For all the terror of the rubble of New York, and the crooks running things like Romans in the coliseum, perhaps the normal world of conformity has worse monsters in store.
Obviously the future setting is a little hokey now, and some of the matte and model effects aren't cutting edge but Escape from New York is real film making from a man who deserves his status as an auteur outside his homeland and is sadly unappreciated within it. It's still a great thrill ride, it's still witty, and it's still got a bit of an edge which stops it from ever becoming predictable. When modern action flicks no longer invest in human depth, and splash their cash on empty eye candy, John Carpenter's films remind everyone that it doesn't have to be that way.
The Disc
Whilst not perfect, Optimum's Blu-ray of this film is a significant improvement on their release of The Fog. Detail is strong but the same issue with the softness of the periphery of the frame is noticeable, contrast is very good for this rather dark movie and colours are handled very well indeed. There are very minor compression artefacts and one instance of aliasing, but watching this along with the Momentum special edition I was confident that this represented an improvement on the visual quality of that former release.
Even better news is that the disc comes with two excellent surround tracks, one being a Master Audio option. The 5.1 DTS HD track is well balanced and uses the full range of speakers brilliantly for effects and score. Some elements of the mix seem a little dull at times, but given the age of the film this is hardly surprising. Ambience is created well in different environments such as the old theatre and in the car scenes, with nice use of the sub-woofer as the perspective switches from outside to inside the car. The mix couldn't be said to be three-dimensional as this is not a fussy treatment when angles of shots change for instance, but this is a very strong option for those wanting to get lost in the action with HD setups. The DD 5.1 mix is obviously recorded at a much lower bit-rate and loses some clarity for a more bassy feel, but again this is well created track for a movie that wasn't made with this kind of audio option in mind. There are no subtitles.
The main transfer takes up 19GB, and with the extra features this releases uses 90% of an all region BD25 single layer disc. The menu is not available as a pop up but it is rather well designed with the score accompanying an animation of New York in ruins. The film comes with Russell and Carpenter doing a commentary where both appreciate the film and the good time that they had making it. Carpenter is very good at explaining the choices he makes around approaching the scenes and the logistical problems of shooting. He is keen that his cast and crew are recognised for their work, and he remarks on James Cameron's matte paintings and Pleasence's bravado. Both men decry the lack of freedom when working with major studios and they seem to have a blast again as they discuss old glories.
Russell and Carpenter join many of the cast and crew in the short documentary remembering making the film. The director explains that the film came about after he was asked to make a version of the Philadelphia Experiment and he offered this old script of his instead. Russell explains that this is a film about individuality and that the film made his career, breaking perceptions about him being a former child actor.
Three trailers are included, along with the original opening of the film showing Snake's arrest after an unsuccessful heist. Best of all though is a new interview with the director talking freely and intelligently about his career. He waxes lyrical about Howard Hawks, describes his own soundtracks as being "cheap and fast" and discusses his films up to The Thing and They Live. He is very telling on modern horror when he rejects the term "torture porn" and points out that recent films are about misadventuring Americans getting their comeuppance, and that this seems to be an inspiration coming from the real world around us. Carpenter is highly eloquent, very insightful, humble and surprisingly political, and this interview made me nip straight out to buy a book on the man.
Summary
A solid hi-def treatment with a nice haul of extras and an excellent DTS master audio track make this a sound purchase.
Comments
It swims, it eats and it makes little sharks!
Posts: 92
Not sure if we should with this one. We bought the R1 2 disk spec ed SD a while back and it is very good. Not sure if it is worth a double dip or not.
Having said this, I really enjoyed JC's films during this period and happily count myself among the (small) group of people who seemed to recognise the greatness in John's films way before anyone else did. This and his other films of the time, BIG TROUBLE and THE THING - then relative commercial failures - are only now being recognised for what they are.
Oh HELL! I've just talked myself into it!!!
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You catch a shark, cut off its fins and tail, throw it back into the water ALIVE, but now unable to swim - so it slowly drowns - only to dry then boil those fins down to make a tasteless watery broth that costs the earth and is nothing more than a status symbol.
Ignorance personified.
Member
Posts: 20
Nice review John. Does the original opening extra have option of a Carpenter/Russell scene-specific commentary like the R1 SE?
Member
Posts: 601
It's pure prejudice but I don't trust a film buff who doesn't love John Carpenter.
...and it's equally prejudiced of me not to trust a review that gives a good but distinctly flawed film a perfect 10/10!
This was actually the first Carpenter film that disappointed me after a truly amazing run in the 1970s. I always thought the idea was inspired and individual elements were superb, but it never quite gelled for me after the first 30 minutes or so. But, to be fair, it's miles better than Doomsday, a rip-off far more shameless than anything that Carpenter ever did.
Incidentally, it was originally mixed with surround in mind. I remember this vividly because it was our local cinema's first ever Dolby Stereo presentation, announced with much fanfare - only for the system to cut out partway through the first reel, followed by an unscheduled ten-minute break. So it's probably fair to say that the original speaker configuration was effectively 4.0.
Contributor
Posts: 169
I had assumed the film was made in mono after not finding any information to the contrary so thanks for putting me right there.
My opening remark is to make clear that what people are
about to read is unashamedly prejudiced in the film's favour and then
to choose whether to bother. And my mark is because this is a film that
I love, much as Colin seems to love the new Batman movie which I would
never imagine to be a masterpiece or flawless. Marks are strange things, after all some people would say that American Pie is as good a film as Battleship Potemkin :)
Mr Phil, I'll check the disc again and confirm whether the commentary is included on the opening tonight.
Contributor
Posts: 169
Checked again, the commentary is not provided on the alternate opening.
Member
Posts: 813
Are you sure it's Region Free? I thought it was Region A + Region B.
Contributor
Posts: 169
According to Dave's earlier news item it is:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=67905
And it showed as region free on my computer.
Member
Posts: 49
I prefer The Fog personally. I actually found Escape slightly disappointing upon rewatching it upon its DVD release. The image quality does look nice from those screencaps though...
Member
Posts: 38
I didn't bother with the DVD as it was on ITV4 a lot, but I think I will bother with this blu-ray as it does sound good
hansolo
Posts: 28
Sadly it seems that EfNY blu-ray is no good (dvd master) up conversion. Please see thread at AVS Forums. Post #157 ->. Very sad effort from Optimum not to even check the master they were given. One screen cap shown in AVS forums originating from HDTV recording is far superior in quality. Also Studio Canal intro clearly shows that this is up conversion.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14453081#post14453081
Contributor
Posts: 169
The evidence against the disc does appear to be convincing. We’ve contacted Optimum and are expecting to learn about the master used next week. If this turns out to be accurate then I am sorry I didn’t spot the issues when reviewing the disc. I didn’t have the benefit of another HD version to compare against and when I review Blu-ray discs I would admit that I am still learning about the format. Some things you just have to accept that you won't see as well as others who know the format better.
In the case of this disc, even if it is an upconversion, I do maintain it’s an improvement on the standard def picture, although my comment about a lack of definition in the edges of the frame may be a clue to the upconversion. It's not something I'd expect from a fairly major distributor, but I suppose I'll have to be more vigilant in looking for upconversions in future.
Administrator
Posts: 2221
We at Optimum always try to provide our customers with the best possible quality video from the best source available to us. All our titles meet the required line count to qualify as ‘High Definition’, i.e. 1080p or 1080i. Contrary to reports on some fan forums, we have been assured by our supplier that the original source for the Blu-ray of Escape from New York is HD. We have not released and we will not release films on Blu-ray from masters we know to be up-scaled from SD PAL. The quality of HD masters of older films can vary and we are sorry if you are unhappy with the quality of picture on Escape From New York Blu-ray. Should a better master become available for this or any other Optimum title then we will endeavour to publish it as soon as feasible.
Contributor
Posts: 1645
Here's the comparison in question:
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?image=1&vergleich=escape_from_new_york#auswahl
Is it another Traffic (Universal's notorious upconvert HD DVD)? It's hard to say, but, if I'd bought this one, I think I'd probably be looking into the store's return policy.
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Reviews | DVDs | My Web Site
Member
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie:
I've just caught up with the debate on this disc, having previously not heard anything about it. Having looked at the various captures that have been posted online, comparing this with the UK SE DVD release, I have to say I find it difficult to know whether it's an upconvert or not. What I can say with some degree of certainty is that the BD transfer doesn't contain any more detail than what would be possible in a standard definition transfer. Therefore, my diagnosis would be that either it is indeed sourced from an SD master, or else a really really shoddy HD master. Either way it's somewhat irrelevant. The bottom line is it shouldn't look this bad.
Here's the comparison in question:
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?image=1&vergleich=escape_from_new_york#auswahl
Is it another Traffic (Universal's notorious upconvert HD DVD)? It's hard to say, but, if I'd bought this one, I think I'd probably be looking into the store's return policy.
I made this comparision. And when you look at DVD comparision between the UK SE and the German Classic Collection (that uses the Studio Canal Master) you will see it is slightly sharper. so I have come to the conclusion that the Optimum BD is in fact an upconversion.
I bought this Disc because this review gave me the impression it was a top-notch transfer with stellar sound and a huge improvement over all the dvds released to this day. when i played it for the 1st time i was shocked how how bad the quality is and felt a bit cheated because all your other reviews where pretty much accurate.
You can not give a 8 for picture unless it has the same quality as Rambo. You can not give a 9 for sound unless it has the same quality as Cars.
Contributor
Posts: 169
The review includes the following critical points about sound and vision:
"Detail is strong but the same issue with the softness of the periphery of the frame is noticeable"
"Whilst not perfect"
"watching this along with the Momentum special edition I was confident
that this represented an improvement on the visual quality of that
former release"
"The 7.1 DTS HD track is well balanced and uses the full range of
speakers brilliantly for effects and score. Some elements of the mix
seem a little dull at times, but given the age of the film this is
hardly surprising."
These are not wholehearted comments or "top notch" or "stellar", in fact the summary says "solid". It clearly is from your comparison better than the dvd release although I would concede that not by as much as people may expect. As for the marking, I will admit that I overscored this but not by a lot.
There is a lot of debate about this disc and a lot of people describing it as the worst disc ever which I find amazing as The Fog release is far far worse. Some people get emotive and talk about being "cheated". On the other side of it is people saying that this is better than previous DVD releases which seems to be eminently true. It is though just a Blu-ray release and my writing above, and apology underneath, are just opinions. You may feel disappointed that EFNY is not as good as you hoped, you may wonder how I can give 8/10 for video quality and that's fine but "cheated" suggests that this is a dishonest review rather than one that needs to be more accurate. I don't think you are being abusive and I can understand why you would be disappointed in the technical parts of the review above, I will try to be more wary in future but I think there are enough qualified criticisms above to challenge the opinion that you took from reading it the first time.
Member
Posts: 2
Sorry but your review comes to the conclusion that this Blu-ray is worth its money. Optimum has done a piss-poor job. It aint the worst Blu-ray in my collection but it was a close call.
(Why do you say DTS-HD 7.1 - My receiver says 5.1, the cover says 5.1, eac3to says 5.1)
btw.
if you are going to review Cliffhanger - another Optimum disc - listen carefully and you will notice the reversed front speakers ;)
Contributor
Posts: 169
Contributor
Posts: 1645
HDNet broadcast top
Optimum BD bottom
Ample proof, I think, that a far, far superior master exists to the one Optimum used.
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Reviews | DVDs | My Web Site
hansolo
Posts: 28
People at the dvdtimes. You should send that HDTV vs. BD screen cap link in post #18 to Optimum. That's the proof one cannot deny. HDTV cap looks beautiful compared to murky low definition BD cap. And the other cap showing Studio Canal logo in the beginning of the film. EFNY logo looks garpage compared to same logo in other Studio Canal discs which are true HD.
But I'm sure techinally oriented people at Optimum (and Studio Canal) already know this. They just kind of deny it so that they don't need to reauthor new BD.
Administrator
Posts: 2221
Originally Posted by hansolo:
People at the dvdtimes. You should send that HDTV vs. BD screen cap link in post #18 to Optimum. That's the proof one cannot deny.
I included a link to a thread with those caps (probably that one) when I contacted them about this, so they've seen it.
I agree with what John wrote about the transfer. Having not seen anything else I thought it looked quite good, and certainly didn't have the gut bad reaction I've seen posted by various people across different forums. As for the film, it's one that I'm slowly coming round to. I've always been a big fan of Carpenter's work from the same period (Halloween, The Thing) but along with The Fog I've never enjoyed EFNY anywhere near as much. This was probably the third of fourth time I've seen it and the first time I've been almost fully engrossed.
ISF Certified
Posts: 356
I think there needs to be a tighter standard for image quality evaluation. The screen grabs posted are certainly far behind the clarity offered by 1920x1080 resolution.
ISF Certified
Posts: 356
I just received a rental copy of this today. The source, to me, looks like a processed standard-def studio tape: that is, marginally better than DVD, but way below 1080p standard. The film grain structure (or what's left of it) is thick and clumpy, it looks undoubtedly SD.
If Optimum are reading this, I urge them to look into it. Did the master tape come from France? Could there possibly have been a language barrier issue? For example, if Optimum requested an HDCAM SR tape of "Escape from New York", the facility could have made them one, using a Digital Betacam tape as a source. Optimum receive the HDCAM SR tape and make a disc out of it, completely unaware of the original source material.
Member
Posts: 1
John,
With all due respect, the admission that you are "still learning about the format" is coming a little late and your explainations before re: "critical points" in the piece you wrote do not reflect ANY of the true problems the encoded signal on the Blu-ray really has.
You could argue the point that you're not alone. And you would be right. It is very unfortunate, that you (as most reviewers on the web, even radio and the papers) write reviews about a subject of which you and your collegues essentially know little to nothing about. Almost none of the reviewers have ever made, let alone supervised a transfer, or even witnessed one. With that obviously goes the knowledge of all the technical reqirements, the equipment, the background in broadcast and film technology and development, stock, handling, editing, mastering, etc.
Now, I don't find any of this lack of knowledge bad at all if that someone who writes his/her perceptions down says straight from the start "I have seen this & this problem - but I am no expert in this". But exactly that is the problem with most reviews. Virtually none of the reviewers does so - but what makes it far worse: most make it sound as if they knew what they are talking about - and do little if any research at all. And this makes it so difficult for the layman out there to distinguish between reliable or non-reliable source. The responsibility that comes with your job is not taken very seriously by most in your "trade". And people are wasting money because of it.
Noone would place any blame if you would ask [people who really work in this field] questions, research and write your pieces accordingly, based on the researched material. This is what is called SOLID. What you and so many others do is not solid, but wreckless, as the observations are not based on profound knowledge, meticulous research and facts, but simple observations by someone who (without standardized calibrated equipment !) rates the quality of a 35mm film transfer he cannot possibly put into context without that profound knowledge in the first place.
As for EFNY specifically - One of our guys here bought the disc after having read this review here. You can imaging our suprise when he brought it here for a check on professional equipment. OPTIMUM, as has been reported by others, is trying to get answers from the supplier of the HDCAM tape they were handed. There are many things wrong with the subsequent signal on the Blu-ray; the debated one is just one of them. Suffice it to say that while EFNY does have a very pronounced grain structure due to the stock, light and the lenses used at the time, and therefore would offer much less detail than many films some people give "WOW" ratings (that discussion for another day) the film does not in any way look like this after a transfer from the 35mm elements, let alone in High Definition.
You are correct, John, you have learning to do - lots of it and you have to catch up quick. I can only advise you to visit an excellent post production facility with High Definition equipment and sit in on a transfer - and talk to colorists. For the review work that you do you should at least learn all the basics. That would be a good starter.
P.S.: By the way: THE FOG definitively does not look worse than EFNY, technically this master at least was not handled in the same problematic way the signal from the Blu-ray of EFNY definitively was.
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Torsten Kaiser
TLEFilms
Mastering & Restoration Projects in SD, HD, 2K & 4K
Contributor
Posts: 482
I would suggest furthermore that it's rather the responsibility of the potential purchaser of any of these discs to do the research, rather than the reviewer, since there are limits to how much technical information we can provide. When even the distributor's comments are dismissed out of hand, how much are you going to believe anyway? You're putting your money down, take a look around and gather a variety of opinions, not just one. Because that's all they are, opinions, whether informed or not, and in the case of this particular disc where even the people who put it out can't be certain of how it was mastered, there's not one person so far who has provided anything in their comments but their own opinion and speculation.
At the very least however, this site at least offers people the opportunity to provide feedback and it could be better used by those "experts" in the "trade" to impart some of their insider knowledge rather than making snotty attacks on the reviewer.
Member
Posts: 142
I'm surprised no one has commented on the fact that the disc has been encoded at 24fps, not 23.976fps. Makes it stutter on a 24Hz player/TV combination. Most of Optimum's forthcoming BDs are 24fps as well. I think they switched production houses or something and someone is screwing up.