Disc Specs
- Region:
- - Released:
Out now - Country:
United States of America - Running Time:
115 minutes - Screen Format:
2.39:1 / 1080P / VC1 - Discs / Type:
1 / HD30 - Soundtracks:
- English TrueHD 5.1
- English DD-Plus 5.1
- French DD-Plus 5.1 - Subtitles:
- English SDH
- French - Special Features:
- U-Control (HD DVD exclusive)
- My Scenes (HD DVD exclusive)
- Web-Enabled Features (HD DVD exclusive)
- Be Bourne Spy Training (HD DVD exclusive)
- Audio commentary by director Paul Greengrass
- Deleted Scenes
- Man on the Move: Jason Bourne
- Rooftop Pursuit
- Planning the Punches
- Driving School
- New York Chase - Distributor:
Universal
The Bourne Ultimatum
24-02-2008 14:30 | 6665 views | Michael Mackenzie | Show Backlinks | Other "The Bourne Ultimatum" Content
The Film
"I think I know what Bourne's looking for," says Pamela Landy (Joan Allen) at one point in The Bourne Ultimatum. Frankly, I'm glad someone does, because I spent a considerable portion of the film's duration trying to work out precisely what was going on. The answer, I suspect, is "not a lot", for, beneath its external sheen of hyperkinetic camerawork and rousing chase scenes, this third (and, it would seem, final) instalment in the series fails to tread any new ground and, for the most part, seems content to relax into a rerun of the themes and objectives of its predecessors.
The action kicks off in the immediate aftermath of The Bourne Supremacy - slightly before it, actually, following Jason Bourne (Matt Damon) as he staggers, injured, through the streets of Moscow, attempting to evade the local authorities. Following this brief prologue, which again brings to a head the question of his identity, he comes to the attention of Blackbriar, the black-ops CIA division that has replaced the now defunct Treadstone programme which spawned Bourne. Believing him to be a threat to the division's secrecy, its chief, Noah Vosen (David Strathairn), orders Bourne's assassination - a most unwise move. A few bodies and several jump cuts later, Bourne is once again jetting around the world, taking in the sights of everywhere from London to Tangiers to New York, on his continued quest to discover who he is and where he came from.
Superficially, the plot is, as before, about Bourne's quest to uncover his identity, but, in reality, this is essentially just an excuse for a series of extremely effective and often shockingly well executed chase sequences. As an actor, Matt Damon is a bit of a blank slate, portraying Bourne as a stone-faced and largely emotionless automaton, resulting in director Paul Greengrass and his screenwriters' attempts to invoke pathos, such as when the character expresses remorse for the people he has killed, seeming insincere and forced. (It seems ironic that, just as Daniel Craig succeeded in making James Bond human again with Casino Royale, the Bourne series came along, taking the notion of the agent as a robotic killing machine to an entirely new level.) In a sense, this doesn't matter unduly, because the plot barrels forward at a sprightly enough pace for you to be sufficiently caught up in the immediacy to not notice that there is no real heart. In The Bourne Identity, by my reckoning the best of the trilogy by a significant margin, this element was provided by the character of Marie Kreutz (Franka Potente), who, as the everywoman flung into the world of cloak and dagger espionage, gave the audience a human connection that Bourne simply does not possess. By killing her off in The Bourne Supremacy, the series lost something that it has never been able to regain, despite attempts in this third outing to fit Julia Stiles' Nicky Parsons, whom Bourne latches on to in an attempt to make up for his failure to save Marie, into a similar role. Newcomer to the franchise David Straithairn, meanwhile, puts in a fine performance as Noah Vosen, but struggles to do much with what is essentially a paper-thin role.
There's something of a sense of irony that the bland enigma that is Bourne provokes pandemonium on such a global scale, but this worldwide urgency turns out to be highly effective, the various urban locales each sufficiently different from each other and interesting in their own right to prevent the action from becoming predictable. There are essentially three key set-pieces, all of which are extremely effective, but the best, by far, is an extended three-way chase through the labyrinthine streets of Tangiers, which eventually makes its way on to the rooftops before culminating in a thrilling bathroom beating. Greengrass and his stunt coordinator do some bravura work here, ratcheting up the tension and executing some impressively physical stunts.
Unfortunately, much of the action and stunt choreography ends up being obscured by Greengrass' choice to shoot the film with what can only be described as the aesthetic of a drunken baboon. The camera is never still, the photography entirely hand-held, and the effect not only verges on nauseating but quickly becomes tired and predictable. There is a time and place for frenetic camerawork, but it most assuredly is not during what should be a quiet, understated conversation between two characters! (I am reminded here of a quote on David Bordwell's web site, attributed to former editor Larry Mirisch: "They used to move their actors; now they move the camera.") This sort of cinematography is frequently praised as highly realistic, put I personally fail to see this point of view. What, precisely, is realistic about your viewpoint jittering about to the extent that it becomes difficult to see what's happening? Far from providing a sense of realism, the effect is distracting and continually serves to remind you that you are watching something artificial. The boom mike even dips into the frame on a couple of occasions! Throughout the film's duration, I found myself yearning for Doug Liman's comparatively understated treatment on The Bourne Identity.
The Bourne Ultimatum is a decent enough action flick, but not, I suspect, the revelation that many have claimed. While it is an improvement on The Bourne Supremacy if for no other reason than its success at upping the ante with its increasingly outrageous action set-pieces, both films remain in the shadow of the vastly superior The Bourne Identity, which proved that you can tell a gritty, tense espionage yarn while at the same time telling a solid and engaging story.
HD DVD Presentation
Given the recent demise of HD DVD, this is likely to be the last review I write for the format. It seems somewhat fitting, therefore, to go out on a high, and The Bourne Ultimatum is a high indeed. Presented in 1080p in its original 2.39:1 aspect ratio, this VC-1 encode is one of the best to be released in the last year on either format: a crystal clear, expertly compressed image with not a hint of artificial sharpening or detail reduction in sight. I've said again and again that, while Universal's film-sourced releases often leave a great deal to be desired, when they have a digital intermediate source to work with, as is the case here, the results often come close to perfection. This is one of the ten high definition discs that I consider to show the format to its highest potential, and I struggle to imagine anyone being disappointed by it.
On a side note, it should be pointed out that this is a different encode from the one found on the UK HD DVD release. The UK version presented its location type and subtitles for non-English dialogue via player-generated subtitles (and a very poor job it did of it too), whereas, on the US version, they are properly burned-in, retaining the correct typography and, in the case of the location type, animation effect. Having seen both discs, I can't claim to have noticed any differences in image quality between them, but this US version would get my recommendation on the basis of the location type and subtitles alone.
No less impressive is the thunderous 48 kHz/24-bit Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track which accompanies the video (the only instalment in the Bourne franchise to feature a lossless audio track on HD DVD). Thunderously deep, crystal clear and impeccably balanced, this is the sort of mix that people are referring to when they use the word "immersive". It's a cliché, admittedly, but you actually do feel as if you are there, right in the middle of the action.
English and dubbed French Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 tracks are also provided, in addition to English SDH and French subtitles (Spanish subtitles are listed on the packaging but are, in fact, not provided). These cover the film itself and the bulk of the extras, with the exception of the commentary and U-control features.
Extras
In addition to including its own HD DVD-exclusive extras (see below), this release replicates all the bonus content from the standard definition DVD release, starting with an audio commentary by director Paul Greengrass, who flies solo for the duration of the track, and does a good job of keeping it going, imparting a mixture of anecdotes about the shooting and observations about the plot and character motivation, with only a handful of lapses into silence. I wouldn't call it essential listening by any stretch of the imagination, but it's pleasing enough to listen to.
12 minutes' worth of deleted scenes follow. The majority of these are actually extensions of scenes that made it into the final film, taking place primarily inside CIA headquarters. Man on the Move: Jason Bourne, meanwhile, is essentially an exploration of the film's five key international locations: Berlin (doubling for Moscow), Paris, London, Madrid and Tangier (New York, the setting of the climax, shows up later in its own featurette). All told, they run for just under 24 minutes in total. The remaining featurettes focus on the Tangiers rooftop chase, the film's combat choreography, the stunt driving, and the chase through New York City, respectively. All but the latter run for under five minutes, and are watchable enough but fairly light and fluffy.
These extras are all presented in standard definition anamorphic widescreen.
HD DVD Exclusive Extras
In addition to the My Scenes option which virtually all Universal's HD DVDs include (allowing users to bookmark their favourite scenes for easy reference), there are three main additional features which only appear on the HD DVD. The primary piece is the U-Control feature, which runs during the film and is essentially split into three different elements, each of which can be toggled on or off at the viewer's discretion.
The first, and most substantial, is the Picture in Picture mode, which takes the form of behind the scenes footage and interviews with key (and not so key) members of the cast and crew. The on-set footage tends to be the best, while the cast members' attempts to explain their characters and their motivation often resemble clutching at straws. Unfortunately, this content tends to be rather sporadic in nature, with numerous lengthy stretches in which the film simply plays on its own. You can, luckily, select each of the individual segments from the U-Control menu, allowing you to jump to them without having to sit through the entire film and waiting for them to show up.
The second piece is the Blackbriar Files, which essentially consists of a series of text-based overlays, providing biographies on certain characters and details on the routes Bourne takes during his international jaunts, and distance travelled. Fun, but it feels a lot like padding. Finally, and least impressively, we have what really is little more than an extended advertisement for the Volkswagen Touareg featured in the film. This is, as one other reviewer put it, one of the most nauseating abuses of product placement you're ever likely to come across.
We also have an interactive game entitled "Be Bourne Spy Training", which, oddly enough, reminds me a lot of the child-oriented games that Disney insists on cramming on to its DVDs. Essentially, you are invited to watch 20 different clips from the film and answer a question on each of them, to determine the effectiveness of your powers of observation. Apparently, you can also upload your score to compare with other users online, but I was unable to get either this or the Web-Enabled Features listed on the menu to work. Each time, my system claimed that it needed to be restarted to connect to the Internet, but to no avail. If web-enabled content such as this is the future of bonus features, please count me out.
Overall
Jason Bourne's third and no doubt final outing on the HD DVD format is a resounding success in terms of audio-visual quality. While the bonus materials are a bit of a mixed bag, it's the presentation of the film itself that matters, and in that regard, this release is among the best available on either format.
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Comments
Member
Posts: 264
Argh, I hate it when they put player-generated captions on films. Even though I don't want this film, thanks for pointing that out, and please continue to do so in your reviews!
Member
Posts: 813
How does the DD Plus compare to the TrueHD for those who cannot yet playback TrueHD? Thanks.
It's also worth noting that only the USA HD-DVD gets the TrueHD soundtrack.
I think all 3 are great but disagree Identity is the best of them. When I first saw Supremacy the action really annoyed me but I've now seen it a few times (thanks to ITV showing the first two Bournes non-stop over the last few months) and think it's excellent. Both Supremacy and Ultimatum have considerably tighter action (it's a sloppy at times in Identity) and a much tighter thriller feel to them.
The story in both is very good IMO. There is more story in Supremacy so if I had to pick which is the best on a story vs. action stakes I'd give it to Supremacy but overall Ultimatum is my favourite. The action is just so excellent. The scene at Paddington alone is worth the price of admission.
Identity is the weakest IMO. At the end of the day all 3 are very solid films and are badly needed in a world of CGI, water down PG-13 action films.
I hope after Bourne (and now Rambo) we see more "real" action films. Less Transformers more Bourne please.
Member
Posts: 2
Actually all 3 Bourne films are water down PG-13 action flicks.
I don't see how Transformers and Rambo IV have any relationship with Bourne.
Anyway, excellent review.
I hope now Universal is Blu-Ray they will start including the SPANISH subtitles again.
Does Universal know than people from South America only chance to buy 1080p is USA or UK through Amazon or similar online sites ???
They aren't being produced in South America, everything is imported.
Member
Posts: 3
Well, they just green lit a 4th episode of Bourne. Was there ever four stories? Or will this be something completely new?
Anyway, HD being murdered the other day, will all the HD material migrate over to BluRay now?
I am so glad I waited for the war to end.. but then, the next one is just around the corner... so... it's never going to really end...
Member
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by MartinD1:
Actually all 3 Bourne films are water down PG-13 action flicks.
I didn't literally mean PG-13. None of the Bournes are watered down. They're serious solid films with excellent gritty action.
Originally Posted by MartinD1:I don't see how Transformers and Rambo IV have any relationship with Bourne.
They're all Blockbuster action films, Bourne to a lesser extent.
Originally Posted by MartinD1:I hope now Universal is Blu-Ray they will start including the SPANISH subtitles again.
Tell that to the 128 million Brazilians living in South America ;)
I think we can safely say Spanish subtitles will be included in any American BD released. It's America's second biggest spoken language.
Well, they just green lit a 4th episode of Bourne. Was there ever four stories? Or will this be something completely new?
Really? I'm not sure that's such a great idea. They better get Greengrass back! We don't want a repeat of X-Men thank you very much.
I don't believe a fourth story has (yet) been written. Not that as I understand it the films follow the books much anyway. If a fourth does come it will need to dramatically move on. They cannot just give us another chase movie again.
Anyway, HD being murdered the other day, will all the HD material migrate over to BluRay now?
Check out the comments in this news article, it's been discussed there:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=67090
Member
Posts: 143
"They used to move their actors; now they move the camera."
Great line!
The best kick of an action film all summer, IMO. As storytelling, it
leaves something to be desired. As a shot of adrenaline to the heart,
it was exhilarating. It's one of the few action films that I've ever
seen that manages to actually keep up its pace the whole way through.
It's sheerly visceral film, an experience. Once the dust settles,
however, the flaws become quite evident. The cipher for a proagonist
idea, once interesting, is getting stale. The whole "who is Bourne"
subplot, so interesting in the first film, is being recycled here again
and again in to the point where it's getting to be the same movie for
the third time. Greengrass's shaking camera still drives me up the
wall. The whole idea of it being more "realistic" is a really wierd
one. Yes, gadgets aren't yet popping out of Bourne's sleeves, but he's
still essentially a superhero, impervious to every kind of damage, and
able to walk away from a high speed car chase with little damage save a
limp. On the other hand, the set pieces here are some of the most
exhilarating I've seen in years. Full of the sort of kinetic energy
that's so often missing from "action" films these days, the "realism"
is actually more a case of hyperrealism. It's grounded to a small
extent, in the sense that there's no Michael Bay camera flying around
going "Wheeee! Look at me! I'm directing!" and no CGI creatures. The
Bourne films clearly try not to talk down to their audiences, and
attempt to be character driven. Whatever degree of success that they
have, in Hollywood, I'll welcome that. Overall, far from a great film,
but a definate good one. An exhilarating ride, which is what the movie
set out to do.
And Greengrass's damn shaking camera still drive me nuts.
"Drunken baboon,'
LOL! Yes, this new trend is really annyoing. Or at least watch someone like Sam Raimi, who actually does it WELL.
Spel chequer
Posts: 330
The sloppily added location captions on the UK version are especially annoying when they a: occasionally appear over the dying frames of the previous location on screen, and b: make no sense of the 'typing' sound effect that accompanied the proper captions at the cinema or on the US disc.
Yes - they annoyed me so much I sold my UK version and bought the US one. :)
Member
Posts: 813
The lack of Lossless Audio annoys me far more, even if I have to pay rip off prices to get it as it comes with an annoying DVD on the other side. Universal stop with the pointless Combos. You're wrong the public doesn't want them!
Contributor
Posts: 1647
Originally Posted by tonyleung:
How does the DD Plus compare to the TrueHD for those who cannot yet playback TrueHD? Thanks.
It's also worth noting that only the USA HD-DVD gets the TrueHD soundtrack.
I think all 3 are great but disagree Identity is the best of them. When I first saw Supremacy the action really annoyed me but I've now seen it a few times (thanks to ITV showing the first two Bournes non-stop over the last few months) and think it's excellent. Both Supremacy and Ultimatum have considerably tighter action (it's a sloppy at times in Identity) and a much tighter thriller feel to them.
The story in both is very good IMO. There is more story in Supremacy so if I had to pick which is the best on a story vs. action stakes I'd give it to Supremacy but overall Ultimatum is my favourite. The action is just so excellent. The scene at Paddington alone is worth the price of admission.
Identity is the weakest IMO. At the end of the day all 3 are very solid films and are badly needed in a world of CGI, water down PG-13 action films.
I hope after Bourne (and now Rambo) we see more "real" action films. Less Transformers more Bourne please.
I can't say I noticed a substantial difference between the TrueHD and DD-Plus tracks, but then again there rarely is one, which is one of the main reasons why I'm sceptical over the lossless audio brouhaha. In most cases, I'm not convinced there is any real difference, and many people will simply trot out the old "it sounds a bit crisper" routine without actually having identified a difference. I even did a blind test, shutting my eyes and selecting a track at random, but wasn't able to pick out which was which. Interestingly, if you head over to DVD-Basen and take a look at the other reviews for this disc, only a couple of them actually mention having compared the TrueHD and DD-Plus tracks and claim to have noticed any difference in the audio (without going into any real detail as to what these differences were). It wouldn't surprise me if the other reviewers did listen to both tracks but opted not to admit that they couldn't tell the difference, primarily because they felt they would immediately be jumped on by the "Every release needs lossless!" crowd. :D
I've never felt that that Identity was any less tight than the other two. On the contrary, I found it to be a much more involving film with considerably tighter action. It's less pacy, sure, but I think it benefits from not careening around at breakneck speed the whole time. And unlike Greengrass, Liman actually allows you to see what's going on during the action sequences. The car chase through Paris remains my single favourite set-piece in any of the three films (whereas I thought the car chase in Moscow in Supremacy was a badly staged and shot mess).
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Member
Posts: 813
That is indeed interesting thanks Michael. I've been inclined to want Lossless so I can hear for myself but haven't got into HD yet to actually hear for myself. I'm surprised you didn't mention in your review you couldn't tell much difference.
Except for Constantine what other Lossless tracks sound much better to you? Can you notice any difference between DD5.1 and DTS on DVD?
I wonder if Lossless is the new DTS, it's sometimes better but not always, but because fans love it they put it on to sell more discs.
And unlike Greengrass, Liman actually allows you to see what's going on during the action sequences.
I'll agree with you there.
Member
Posts: 219
i was under the impression that the first 3 films cover the books written by the original writer before he passed, but then another book was written by a totally different writer so are they not gonna use his book then.
Member
Posts: 391
The UK HD-DVD of Elizabeth The Golden Age also loses its Dolby True HD track. This is annoying as I brought it as I wanted to avoid the North American combo.
Member
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by tonyleung:
How does the DD Plus compare to the TrueHD for those who cannot yet playback TrueHD? Thanks.
It's also worth noting that only the USA HD-DVD gets the TrueHD soundtrack.
I think all 3 are great but disagree Identity is the best of them. When I first saw Supremacy the action really annoyed me but I've now seen it a few times (thanks to ITV showing the first two Bournes non-stop over the last few months) and think it's excellent. Both Supremacy and Ultimatum have considerably tighter action (it's a sloppy at times in Identity) and a much tighter thriller feel to them.
The story in both is very good IMO. There is more story in Supremacy so if I had to pick which is the best on a story vs. action stakes I'd give it to Supremacy but overall Ultimatum is my favourite. The action is just so excellent. The scene at Paddington alone is worth the price of admission.
Identity is the weakest IMO. At the end of the day all 3 are very solid films and are badly needed in a world of CGI, water down PG-13 action films.
I hope after Bourne (and now Rambo) we see more "real" action films. Less Transformers more Bourne please.
I am lucky enough via the Onkyo 605 to be able to play Dolby True HD tracks. I have compared the tracks on 300, Elizabeth (North American version of first film) and Tremors to their DD+ counterparts. In all 3 cases the True HD track was slighty louder and clearer. 300 was the biggest difference. However if you can't play True HD tracks you are not missing out much to be honest DD+ is perfectly acceptable and more than does the job of a great home cinema experience.
The 7.1 DTS MA track on the North American version of Pan's Labyrinth however is the best track I have heard in my home. Its amazing and makes me want a 7.1 set up as in 5.1 its amazing enough. It one of only 2 DTS MA tracks I have heard in full (I have a few Fox Blu-ray's but the PS3 as yet does not send the bitstream to the Onkyo like the Toshiba XA2 does) the other being First Blood Part II.
Member
Posts: 391
The Tremors Dolby True HD track is first rate and hopefully will be on any Blu-ray release as its a shame if more people do not get to hear it.
Member
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by filmfan316uk:
The UK HD-DVD of Elizabeth The Golden Age also loses its Dolby True HD track. This is annoying as I brought it as I wanted to avoid the North American combo.
Agreed. For the same reason I have to pay extra for an annoying Combo. Even if the Lossless soundtrack is pointless I still want to hear it for myself.
In all 3 cases the True HD track was slighty louder and clearer. 300 was the biggest difference.
Thanks. It sounds very much like DD5.1 vs. DTS.
However if you can't play True HD tracks you are not missing out much
to be honest DD+ is perfectly acceptable and more than does the job of
a great home cinema experience.
It's worth putting in context (again) for those who don't know that DD Plus is either 640Kbps or 1.5Mbps, so both virtually the same as DTS on DVD (768Kbps or 1.5Mbps) and everyone loves DTS.
Even DD5.1 as found on DVD (348Kbps or 448Kbps) sounds great to me. DD5.1 on HD Discs runs just 640Kbps.
The 7.1 DTS MA track on the North American version of Pan's Labyrinth however is the best track I have heard in my home.
I appreciate it's not scientific but better than the TrueHD soundtracks?
What about Lossless PCM on BD?
Contributor
Posts: 1647
Originally Posted by tonyleung:
That is indeed interesting thanks Michael. I've been inclined to want Lossless so I can hear for myself but haven't got into HD yet to actually hear for myself. I'm surprised you didn't mention in your review you couldn't tell much difference.
Except for Constantine what other Lossless tracks sound much better to you? Can you notice any difference between DD5.1 and DTS on DVD?
I wonder if Lossless is the new DTS, it's sometimes better but not always, but because fans love it they put it on to sell more discs.
Apart from Constantine, the remake of Dawn of the Dead is one where the TrueHD track really jumped out at me as being superior to the DD track - although, in that case, unusually for Universal, the DD track was the same 448 Kbps track that was found on DVD, so there is obviously a much greater jump from that to TrueHD than there would be with one of their more standard 1.5 Mbps tracks. 300 is another where there are clear gains with the TrueHD track.
As for the DD vs. DTS debate, yes, on certain titles, I do notice a difference, but I think it's probably accurate to say that the situation there is similar to the DD vs. TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/PCM debate: sometimes there are gains to be made, but a lot of the time there is no noticeable difference (unless the DTS track is slightly louder, which seems to happen quite often and may therefore give the impression of being superior to the DD track when you flick back and forth between them). Quite often, I suspect it is just used as a marketing tactic, a bit like the THX logo, which is even less meaningful.
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Posts: 813
Thanks again Michael. Interesting.
I presume you cannot tell any difference between DD5.1 and DD Plus? I hear DD Plus has more superior encoding, but I doubt in reality it makes much/any difference.
I've read evidence that suggests the only actual reason people think they prefer louder audio is because their eardrums are being vibrated more and thus are working more forcefully.
I tend to find most DTS tracks only sound minutely better if at all, some sound much better but others sound identical, there isn't even any volume difference sometimes (Terminator UK UE and The Two Towers come to mind).
Agreed THX is the biggest joke ever invented. I still remember that woeful original Highlander R1 DVD that had THX certification, even considering that I hear it was Laser disc sourced that shouldn't excuse how awful it looked.
Back to Lossy vs. Lossless audio, as there is enough feedback to suggest sometimes it sounds better I'd still prefer to be given the choice.
p.s - I lastly presume your HD Player tells you these bitrates?
Contributor
Posts: 1647
Originally Posted by tonyleung:I presume you cannot tell any difference between DD5.1 and DD Plus? I hear DD Plus has more superior encoding, but I doubt in reality it makes much/any difference.
My understanding is that this is nothing more than a naming convention, in terms of Blu-ray tracks being labelled as Dolby Digital and HD DVD ones as Dolby Digital-Plus. The real difference, I feel, tends to be in terms of the bit rate, and it's definitely fair to say that a 1.5 Mbps DD-Plus track can sound a good deal better than a 448 Kbps DD track (after all, 1.5 Mbps is the same bit rate as full bit rate DTS). The operative word here, of course, is "can". Depending on a whole bunch of factors, there may be a clear difference or none at all.
Back to Lossy vs. Lossless audio, as there is enough feedback to
suggest sometimes it sounds better I'd still prefer to be given the
choice.
Agreed... in principle, at least. More choice is always good, although I doubt I'd consider it a deal-breaker. I'm not about to say "No [Title] for me! It doesn't have lossless!" :D
p.s - I lastly presume your HD Player tells you these bitrates?
My PS3 does. My Xbox 360 add-on doesn't, but my audio receiver does tell me the bit rate of the signal being sent to it.
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As far as I know DD5.1 only supports up to 640KBps vs. DD Plus which can go up to 1.5Mbps.
That's neat, what receiver do you have?
Member
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by muttznutz:
i was under the impression that the first 3 films cover the books written by the original writer before he passed, but then another book was written by a totally different writer so are they not gonna use his book then.
Well the film deviates from the book almost as soon as it starts.
The books are centre around two things, the idea of a assassin that looses his mind, and then doesn't like what he finds out he was (which is what the films cover). But the bigger part of the plot is the fact that David Webb was actually after Carlos the Jackel, and became Bourne the 'master assassin' as a lure.
Contributor
Posts: 1647
Originally Posted by tonyleung:
As far as I know DD5.1 only supports up to 640KBps vs. DD Plus which can go up to 1.5Mbps.
That's neat, what receiver do you have?
I think you're probably right. The thing is, 640 Kbps tracks on HD DVD are still generally labelled as Dolby Digital-Plus.
My receiver is a Yamaha RXV359. It's a semi-hidden feature that requires a bit of button mashing, but the manual gives full instructions.
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But the bigger part of the plot is the fact that David Webb was
actually after Carlos the Jackel, and became Bourne the 'master
assassin' as a lure.
Having not read the book I cannot say for sure but that doesn't sound half as exciting as what we got instead. Do you mean Lure to trap the CIA?
My receiver is a Yamaha RXV359. It's a semi-hidden feature that
requires a bit of button mashing, but the manual gives full
instructions.
As far as I can see this doesn't have HDMI so how are you hearing lossless on your Xbox 360 and PS3? Neither have Analogue Outputs. Thanks again.
Source: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/lib_image/rxv359/rxv359_rtl.jpg
Member
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by tonyleung:
Originally Posted by filmfan316uk:
The UK HD-DVD of Elizabeth The Golden Age also loses its Dolby True HD track. This is annoying as I brought it as I wanted to avoid the North American combo.
Agreed. For the same reason I have to pay extra for an annoying Combo. Even if the Lossless soundtrack is pointless I still want to hear it for myself.
In all 3 cases the True HD track was slighty louder and clearer. 300 was the biggest difference.
Thanks. It sounds very much like DD5.1 vs. DTS.
However if you can't play True HD tracks you are not missing out much
to be honest DD+ is perfectly acceptable and more than does the job of
a great home cinema experience.
It's worth putting in context (again) for those who don't know that DD Plus is either 640Kbps or 1.5Mbps, so both virtually the same as DTS on DVD (768Kbps or 1.5Mbps) and everyone loves DTS.
Even DD5.1 as found on DVD (348Kbps or 448Kbps) sounds great to me. DD5.1 on HD Discs runs just 640Kbps.
The 7.1 DTS MA track on the North American version of Pan's Labyrinth however is the best track I have heard in my home.
I appreciate it's not scientific but better than the TrueHD soundtracks?
What about Lossless PCM on BD?
I would say that yes the DTS MA track on Pan's Labyrinth is better than any Dolby True HD track I have heard. The best Dolby True HD track I have heard is Tremors. It really is quite something. I have not got Dawn of the Dead but have a Japanese DVD of the film and am interested in picking it up to try out the soundtrack.
PCM on BD always seems louder than the DTS MA/Dolby True HD tracks.
I have the Res Evil trilogy and the second film has a PCM track while the other two have Dolby True HD tracks. The PCM track seems far louder and the subwoofer seems to get more action. Again it could be the mix itself but PCM seems louder.
The PS3 tells you bitrates but I can't get bitrates out of my XA2 or the Onkyo 605 so can not really get any info on HD-DVD.
Another thing to note is the whole having the player decode the sound or sending it via bitstream debate.Now the PS3 unzips if you will the Dolby True HD track and sends it as PCM down to my Onkyo 605, but this sounds the same as when my XA2 HD-DVD player sends the bitstream to the Onkyo for it to decode. They are people who do think that having an amp decode it is better but to me I can't tell the difference(DTS MA I can't give an comment on as the PS3 just extracts the core so I have not listened to any DTS MA BD tracks in full just HD-DVD ones).
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Thanks. That's particularly impressive about Tremors TrueHD considering it was only originally made in Dolby Surround so not even 5.1.
I'm not at all surprised to hear PCM is louder. As a rule of thumb it seems the higher the bitrate the louder it gets. PCM has the highest bitrate of all of them.
This review for Flash Point says the bass on the PCM is way too high but the DTS Core despite being Lossy sounds much better, he's not able to compare PCM to the DTS-HD MA:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1286/flashpoint_hk.html
I'd guess it all comes down to how good the decoder in the Amp or Player is and they're probably all very good. On my DVD Player I prefer letting my Amp decode the DTS/DD5.1 (i.e - it's sent bitstream) but that's more to do with the fact that if I let my Player decode it I have to use the Analogue Outputs which means the Amp isn't able to add any enhancing effects of it's own.
Frankly as long as I can listen to Audio at it's Full Bit-rate I don't care how it's decoded.